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Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

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  • 11-06-2009 7:30 PM

    Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    BBC1's Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood has said the amount of poor landscaping work he has seen has increased in the past five years and the recession is making the situation worse.

    Read the whole article.

  • 11-06-2009 7:30 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    what a lot of absolute rubbish. Woe betide anyone starting out that has only a car/trailer and handfull of tools because the banks are not lending money. So according to this article they are then classed as rogue traders. What about the many businesses that started out this way and have become large profitable businesses with good customer care. I have an nc horticulture and an hnc, but can make genuine mistakes like anyone.and on the subject of vat, what really has that got to do with anything? if a sole trader works away and turnsover enough for his requirements and below the threshold, then do what, as long as his work is to a standard the customer expects then is that not enough? This article has created a lot of discussion on the biggest and best landscape forum. Such is the way off remarks niall gibb

  • 11-06-2009 8:51 PM
    In reply to

    Re: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    The article reads as a nice rehash of a Westwood press release. Regarding the comment from BALI - garden designers and landscapers will join trade associations if they feel they are getting value for money and, just as importantly, if there is a marketing advantage in doing so. My own experience is that my customers place no added value in membership of BALI, SGD or ALP, and I can see little value for money in joining. As regards the comment about VAT, it would be laughable for its utter ignorance if it wasn't from "the UK’s representative trade association for the landscaping sector".
  • 11-06-2009 9:47 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    Frankly this is absurd. Licensing will only increase cost to legitimate businesses that will have to be passed on to the client. The result, even more of a black market opportunity for the unscrupulous. As For the BALI comment on Vat registration, every business has to startout. Obviously BALI are not interested in the many hundreds of smaller legitimate businesses who are not vat registered. The above makes me glad not to be a BALI member.

  • 11-07-2009 1:04 AM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    Vat is either an addition to price or not -it simply is charged if you are registered or not ! - that's the only technical difference \( if you earn over £50,000? a year turnover vat is a legal obligation) gardens4u.co.uk

  • 11-07-2009 12:33 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    Utter slanderous tosh and pomposity. This can be read as nothing more than a pressurised recruitment drive for the established "trade associations". This is a deliberate and vicious undermining of legitimate and quality assured small business under the guise of a 'rogue-traders' alert. Are we now to feel guilty that we are not members of these 'prestigious' associations - that we are short-changing our customers? "In times of recession people set up landscaping businesses by buying a second-hand van and a barrowful of tools and away they go." Quite frankly this is harmful, condescending vitriol to the essence and spirit of entrepreneurship. I suppose the author woke up one day and strangely enough found himself suddenly running a successful \(VAT registered) business with a fleet of vans, staff and a shed load of equipment? As we say in Glasgow: turn it up! I suspect there may be one or two businesses conned into paying the extortionate assessment fees and annual subscriptions for these associations, but then I also suspect that this article will have a far more negative impact upon general opinion and treatment of APL, BALI and the like. As for the turnover comment; if that is supposed to relate to serious industry-based comment, then there are indeed some very serious problems afoot. Nicky Patterson

  • 11-07-2009 10:56 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    I think we all agree that our industry is at the best of times very competitive. If we are honest gardening is an easy level of entry into business and with the general downturn in other trades and services we are and will continue to see more one man bands with B&Q mowers in their estate cars. I don't want to drum the industry down but the basic stuff is something that a lot of people can do without a lot of experience and there will always be a market for the untrained "gardener" and not all will be rogue traders. Whilst I agree that we should all aim to have NVQs, I fail to see how not being members to trade associations are further eroding standards! As for being VAT registered or not is absolute rubbish! We are in tough times and we all have to be performing at the highest level of effectiveness to survive and prosper belittling small and often one man bands who operate under the VAT threshold gives me the impression that some of the larger companies are running scared and may I suggest need to review their business model and mode of operation? Rogue traders is a major concern but the comments in this particular article fail to address the real root causes and how we can all help to reduce this problem.

  • 11-08-2009 4:57 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    What a misguided article, its like a petulant public school boy who wants to exclude anyone who is not vat registered or a member of b.a.l.i. The recession ensures that sole traders do a good job first time, because we trade on reputation, not being a member of a faceless organisation the customer is not likely to ever see. Why not be brave and identify the real rogue traders who cold call,are not registered with anybody,dump their rubbish in the local park,and move on when they have conned the local people into having a sub standard job done for cash. I hope that b.a.l.i. members who are large firms are not pricing for work knowing that they are underpricing to kill off the small firm.

  • 11-09-2009 10:07 AM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    Thanks to the people who have commented. I thought it was worth hearing Mitch Westwood's views because he is a high profile landscaping contractor through his TV appearances on Rogue Traders. He does say smaller companies fulfil a role and adds that licensing is not a good idea. BALI no doubt meant in the reference to companies that are not VAT registered that many customers would not like to work with a contractor that is non-VAT registered when they should be - the sort of companies that could be described as rogue traders.

  • 11-09-2009 1:36 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    Thanks for the clarification Matt but don't you feel it's the responsibility of BALI to comment on what they meant to say?

     

    Mitch Westwood and Sandra Loton-Jones are both high profile - a position that brings with it certain responsibilities. They both have a duty of care and should have thought very carefully about what they wanted to say before they said it.

     

    I have re-read what Westwood says and he doesn't make it easy to decipher what he meant to say. If you have misquoted Loton-Jones or Westwood then that is your responsibility.

  • 11-09-2009 2:42 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    I can understand some of the arguments in this article. Even though I had over 25 years of 'hands on' amateur gardening experience, I had no formal qualifications. So I studied in my spare time with a distance learning horticultural college and took the RHS examinations. Doing this gave me the confidence to set up my garden and design business knowing my prospective clients could be confident in my abilities. By far, my recommendations are mostly by word of mouth, as are the landscaping company I work with. We charge the same prices now as we did before the recession - and we are still very busy, even at this time of year. I have seen a totally incompetent 'gardener' at work - grass mown to within a millimetre of its life, horrendously pruned trees and dying shrubs as a result. The gardener continues the fortnightly onslaught and the garden looks worse and worse - client presumably doesn't mind this perhaps because the price is right for him or her and at least the garden is not left to grow (let alone overgrow!). I agree that the public don't often recognise NVQ's - perhaps they don't know that qualifications exist...and by that token I would hardly think they know about the existence of trade associations either.

  • 11-09-2009 5:53 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    Given Mitch Westwood's comments regarding Trade Associations I would be interested to know what side of the industry he aligns himself with - BALI or APL or SGD ?

  • 11-10-2009 8:44 AM
    In reply to

    Re: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    All landscapers, large and not so large (in a corporate sense of course!) whether or not they are members of an association, will be welcome at The Hard Landscaping Show and World of Paving at the Ricoh Arena, Coventry on the 24th & 25th of March, 2010.
  • 11-10-2009 11:36 AM
    In reply to

    Re: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    To be fair to BALI - this is what they told me this morning:

     

    "The comments made by BALI's Chief Executive, Sandra Loton-Jones, in the article on page 5 of the 6th November 2009 edition of Horticulture Week, were extracted selectively by the journalist from a longer interview and, in isolation, could be open to misinterpretation.

     

     

    There is no question that, from a price perspective, operators who work in the domestic market and are VAT registered are at a disadvantage when competing against non-VAT registered businesses. The domestic client is unable to reclaim the VAT charged by the VAT registered contractor yet the contractor must charge it by law.

     

     

    The non-VAT registered operator is immediately 15 per cent (17.5 per cent from January 2010) cheaper before selection of materials and labour is even considered.

    Whilst there are undoubtedly 'rogue traders' amongst VAT registered contractors, there is a greater risk of becoming the victim of an unscrupulous landscaper amongst non-registered companies if they are not members of a recognised trade association or customer protection scheme.

     

     

    Indeed, it is arguably more important for sole traders and small businesses to belong to a trade association with strict entry criteria and recognised industry standards so that the client can be reassured of their professional capabilities and trustworthiness.

     

     

    The member is also then protected against unscrupulous domestic clients who exploit smaller contractors by trying to extract last minute discounts for often spurious claims of dissatisfaction with the work completed.

     

     

    However, there is, undeniably, a major contingent of sole traders and micro businesses, outside of landscape trade associations, that operates effectively and efficiently and represents all that is good in the industry."

     

    Richard Gardiner, Chairman, BALI

  • 11-10-2009 12:39 PM
    In reply to

    RE: Rogue Traders landscaping expert Mitch Westwood blames economy for rise in poor landscape standards that 'devalue' sector

    This certainly helps clarify the matter in my view.

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